The Joy And Burden Of Motherhood With Phoebe Simmonds.

Co-founder of The Memo and Founder of The Blow gets real about being mum.

Phoebe and Remy.

I spoke with Phoebe when I started Dear Dilate. This was before she gave birth to Remy. In fact, before she was even pregnant. She was warm and kind and focused. She was focused on the growth of her business baby, The Memo. Back then, she believed parents deserve better (which still reigns true today), and since experiencing motherhood first-hand, she is even more driven by purpose than ever. This is not your usual conversation on motherhood. It is frank and vulnerable; we discuss the gender divide, loss of identity, the burden of breastfeeding and unpaid labour, and Phoebe’s shift in ambition.

JF: So I want to start off by asking, how are you doing? How is motherhood so far? It’s been a while since we’ve caught up. 

PS: I had a relatively ‘good’ baby who slept and with no underlying health issues. I enjoyed the baby part. But the adjustment to owning two businesses with a baby that’s been hard. It has felt like a lot. In those early days, I just really overextended myself and in the process, I think I just really lost myself. My body and mind were given over to something so small, but something so big and consuming, that there felt like nothing left of me, for me. I felt this, particularly with breastfeeding. Did you breastfeed? 

JF: Yes, I did for a few months, then pumped for a while after that. 

PS: It’s a whole thing. It just takes over your whole day, the whole night, the whole body. 

JF: Yep. I remember feeling like I wasn't sure where he ended, and I began. You know my story of Freddie having reflux, and I felt like I'd be feeding him, and then he'd be sleeping on me, then he’d be in the carrier all day, and there was no end or beginning to both of us. It’s all-encompassing and completely exhausting on all levels.

PS: Yes, completely. I feel the same, and at the end of a Reiki session the other day that involved a lot of cleansing, she said, “Welcome to your new life.” And I was like, wow, that's what I needed. So how I’m feeling now is, and not to be too woo-woo, but I definitely feel like I’m on a journey to get me back to being who I actually am.

JF: For me, the beginning felt like survival mode. There are so many things that you're learning on the fly, and your baby is learning about you, and how to be in the world I don't know if you felt this; actually, I didn’t realise I did until my conversation with Naomi, from Cocoon by Naomi, I had a bit of an epiphany; that in the early days, I was leaning out of my new role as mum. I didn't want to be ‘just a mum’ because it was hard and gritty, and I had a baby who screamed constantly and didn’t sleep, and I just felt like I wasn’t cut out for this. I missed my old life. I was desperately trying to figure out how to get back to who I used to be and what I used to do while trying to be “the perfect mother”, and it just doesn't work. You really have to surrender to the newborn days, then when that feels okay, like you’re getting the hang of it, start to learn how it can all work together.

PS: I think the quote “Women work like they don’t have children and have children like they don’t work outside the home.” really sums it up for me. It's just impossible. And don’t get me started on the gender divide.

JF: I know. I get it. And you can have the most supportive partner, and still, things are tricky. It's just not equal. And while we’re on the topic, I understand that Shaun had a week off, and you took 14 weeks. So tell me, how that looked?

PS: Being business owners, there’s never a really ‘off’ day, even right after giving birth. Even though I officially went back to paid work and into the office after about three months, I never stopped working. There were a couple of days or weeks where I didn't look at emails, and no one really talked to me about work, but I run two businesses, so I’m always contactable… to be honest, that’s who I am, available! I work three days with The Memo and one or two days with The Blow; depending on the business needs, it’s fluid; it has to be. 

JF: What kind of support do you have in place? 

PS: I have an incredible nanny who's with us Mondays and Tuesdays, then I've booked Remy in for daycare on Wednesdays and Thursdays starting in February and Tyler, my stepson, is starting at school this year. Then I have my mum, who helps a lot, but we don't have any set days. My parents and my family are in Geelong. Shaun’s family are about 30 minutes away from us, but they all work and Shaun runs his own business, so it’s a real village, juggling support from different parties in our household. 

JF: It is. It’s a constant juggling of schedules. Do you feel you have had a behind-the-scenes peek at what motherhood would be like as a working mother? 

PS: Yeah, I do. I've been speaking to a lot of new parents. And I hear consistently that they were shocked by the experience. I didn't have that. It was exactly what I expected it to be. And I think that's just because with The Memo, I was just so much more engaged in the stories people were sharing. I had my eyes fully open going in, but I don’t know if that necessarily made it easier, just different. I was prepared for the fogginess, the tiredness, the relentlessness. I knew it would be slow. I knew it would be hard. I knew that there would be lots of emotions to be aware of and to regulate. I knew the importance of boundaries and asking for help. 

But the things that I’ve found most difficult, that I don’t think I could have fully prepared myself for, was the gender divide, the resentment that comes with the division (or non-division) of unpaid labour. For me particularly, this loss of identity and feeling like my brain just wasn’t/ isn’t as sharp as it used to be.

Also, my experience is different to most people in the fact that we both have our own businesses, but also because Shaun has a son already, he’d done ‘life with a newborn’ once before. His partner, Sam, passed away when their son was seven months old, and he was a single parent for the next three years, so he is incredibly capable. We didn't have the crisis of confidence; I didn't have the crisis of confidence I think many mums experience with their first. I didn't need to Google a million things. We just did what Shaun knew how to do, and I could really lean on him. 

JF: Knowledge is so powerful, but for some things, knowing is so different from experiencing it. You mentioned the gender divide again, so tell me, what are you finding most challenging? 

PS: Ummm… I mean, it's difficult, right? In my experience, I just felt that the pregnancy was all on me. I was the one who was basically on house arrest (bedrest) because I had a high-risk pregnancy. Then, obviously, the birth, which was the greatest day of my life. I just absolutely loved it. It was incredible. And I was so lucky to have such a great experience there. But once again, me. But then in postpartum. You're the one at home. You're doing school pickups with a baby and having to break or flex that routine, and you are now the one doing the juggle simply because you are the mother at home. From the second you are pregnant, this gives you insight into your future, how you will function as a family unit, and just how much the mum has to do behind the scenes to keep things afloat. Every relationship and circumstance is different, and I feel like even though my partner is a true partner and incredibly helpful and capable and supportive, he will never get what it actually feels like for me. I don’t really know how to explain how it’s hard; it just is. Women who have been there understand that. 

JF: Absolutely. My husband is incredible and tries, but he doesn’t really get ‘it’, and I find it hard to explain. I can, however, explain the unequal spilt of domestic duties. –  I know if I’m sick or busy with work and with something so simple like I haven’t done the washing, then no one has clean undies. The wheels completely fall off.  He doesn’t think or see the things I do and that can be frustrating. This is particularly hard in those early days.

PS: I also think breastfeeding is a huge burden. I think doing unpaid work is a huge burden. It’s a huge burden to raise children while also taking on a tonne of unpaid domestic work and that all falls on women, and that’s just because we're apparently good at it, so we’re the ones at home, in those early stages. That's why you hear so much about women burning out and struggling to adjust to a new role because we are asked to take on a bigger percentage of unpaid labour, and men's lives obviously do change but they are not being challenged in every aspect, like we are. 

JF: I agree, and sadly there’s nothing new about this, and it happens in my household. If he has to work, he has to work, end of the story. But if I have to work and Freddie is sick, shit hits the fan, and I, like a lot of working mothers, am the one who needs to figure out a way that I can work after hours or who is sending emails apologising for missing a deadline. All of my work doesn't go away, I have to do it. 

PS: A lot of our team are in part-time roles because they're all women who have returned from parental leave, and they want flexible working arrangements, which is great. And it's great for them but how many men are coming back to paid work part-time? And is that because of salary? Aspiration? Biology? Traditional gender roles? Is it just easier? There's a lot of chicken or egg.

JF: I feel as though we could talk for hours on the unequal labour of mothers, but we really do lack the systems and support, and challenging gender norms still feels taboo. 

PS: Absolutely. Men, employers, the healthcare system, and society as a whole needs to change here; it will be better for everyone. On the individual level, it can mean partners getting involved in preconceptions and understanding they are there to support. Support could mean different things to different partners. Even for The Memo, which is marketed to parents, we see 95% of our customers as women. Predominantly, women take on the research, they’re the ones getting the recommendations, and reading the reviews. Involving men in something as simple as buying decisions is a good start. And then there are the discussions about boundary setting, sharing night feeds, and understanding signs of postnatal depression, anxiety, and depletion. This is an experience that can be shared, and men need to do more, full stop. They can do more to ensure their partners feel held, supported and understood. 

Absolutely. I think early involvement is so important, and having these conversations before the baby arrives. I don’t know how many men would even know the term ‘postnatal depletion’ or understand how common post-natal depression and anxiety are … I think around 20% of new mothers suffer from this. I know I feel the pressure to raise a son who grows up to be someone who treats his partner as an equal, that he takes on caretaking, and that he is self-sufficient and understands domestic duties fall on the entire household, not just mum. Do you feel pressure with raising boys also? 

PS: It’s a very considered approach to parenting. I had gender disappointment when I found out I was having a boy. It was something I was able to get over quickly, but one thing a lot of people said to me was that I had the privilege of being able to raise another boy who would understand what it means to be a good man, a good feminist, a good partner. It starts in the home.

JF: Aside from the challenges, what have you found most joyful so far? 

PS: The best part for me has been the fact that we are now a family unit. To see Tyler, who's almost six, now have a younger brother. This was something Shaun didn't think was going to be possible. He was prepared for it just to be him and Tyler. The most special thing is feeling like we’re all connected, rather than me just being the stepmom. It's just little things like waking up in the morning, having everyone in bed with us, and going on drives together. I love seeing Remy grow, he is starting to be a lot more enjoyable now he’s around seven months – he's starting to smile and grab and roll and just start to show his own personality rather than just being a potato that screams and eats. It’s true what they say, it just gets better. 

JF: It is those little moments that you feel the luckiest. The ordinary, nothing in particular, but simple, easy moments just bring so much joy into your life. 

PS: Yes, that’s what makes it all worth it. 

JF: I’d like to ask, do you think motherhood has made you more ambitious?

PS: No. 

JF: Haha, that was quick! Has your drive moved down the pecking order? Because I know you to be a high achiever when it comes to your career.

PS: It's a really good question, and I haven't been asked that. And wow, how’s my instant knee-jerk response!?! It’s less about hustling, working hard and ticking off personal achievements and more about passion and purpose.

I spent my whole 20s working on my career-building experience and being challenged in new ways. In my 30s, I founded/ co-founded these two businesses and I've created the brands, and built the teams that I want to work with. While we do have huge aspirations for both businesses, I’m so much further where I thought I would ever be. My drive now is more focused on being able to love what I do, to work with interesting and interested people, to build brands that mean something to women, and to continue to offer something different and important in the market. I think as a mum, if I was to be more specific on my experience with The Memo, it's even more important to me to cut through the crap and the clutter, the judgment, the assumed knowledge, the noise in the parenting industry. I really understand that now. I wrote that mission three and a half years ago before I became a mum, while I was single, and I really get it now. 

JF: I believe motherhood has a way of pushing us to really hone in on what is important and we work so much now, and if something is taking us away from our kids or a break from our kids, then we want to be enjoying it. Do you have any advice on what mothers or mums-to-be can put in place to help with the juggle or motherhood and career? 

PS: Firstly, it's recognising that it is going to be hard and that's okay but knowing it is going to get better too. Every day is a new day. Some really good advice was shared with me recently,  to book in psychologist appointments and set up other services even before you give birth, because the wait lists are so long that you might not be able to get in for a couple of months. Parenthood, and motherhood in particular, can be lonely, so it's good to have someone who you can talk to. I found it very healing to be able to talk to other mums who understand what it’s like. I wasn't looking for solutions, I was just looking for understanding. I encourage other women to find women who will listen. We also need to know that it’s okay to ask for help. I once asked my mum to come up from Geelong so I didn’t have to drive to pick up Tyler from ELC one afternoon and put Remy into the car, it was a five minute drive for me but something in my brain was just blocking me from feeling able to do it. She came. It made a big difference. Trust that gut and don’t push yourself too hard, when your body is telling you something, listen.  

Another thing is setting up boundaries, doing one thing a day, and that one thing could be someone coming over with some food for you or it could be going for a walk, driving to get your hair done, having a shower, having a sleep during the day. Just focus on one thing that will make you happy and move your body or nourish your mind and comfort you. Whatever it takes just do that one thing. And don't try and overload yourself with too many expectations because it's just not going to work for anyone.